It’s our belief that we are fully in compliance with iPhone OS 4.0 ToS as we interpret them.
We agree with others that the intent behind the language is probably aimed at Adobe and preventing Flash from landing on an iPhone/iPad and bypassing or otherwise circumventing the iPhone SDK.
As a pre-requisite to using Titanium, developers must install the Apple iPhone SDK and Apple XCode development toolchain. They must install Titanium on a Macintosh and they must have a valid Apple Developer membership before they are even able to create a Titanium-based iPhone/iPad application.
Titanium produces a valid XCode project at application creation, generates Objective-C (and sometimes C/C++) and executes the xcodebuild to compile your XCode project into a native application using Apple’s published APIs. We launch the Apple’s iPhone simulator to test your application, create the correct Apple binary for integration to iTunes when testing your signed application on device and use all the certified Apple tools for signing to create the final distribution. The developer must obtain their own Apple signing certificate for creating applications with Titanium and Xcode and the developer uses their own Apple iTunes Connect membership and login to upload the package to Apple for submission.
We believe Titanium adds value to the Apple Development ecosystem and enhances the Apple platform for many thousands of developers around the world. As we always have, we will continue to work with Apple to ensure we stay in compliance with their terms of service.
@Anon
I wondering no, but it seems that other solutions gave another responses, and i think Titanium is more “valid” than other
http://www.macgeneration.com/news/voir/150431/iphone-os-4.0-vent-de-panique-pour-les-sdk-alternatifs
(in french, so Phonegap said “it’s OK, we pass ToS”)
Is it true ? Or just some kind of “sand in eyes” ?!?!
If phoneGap is OK for ToS, i really don’t know why Titanium would not…
But the silence of appcelerator Staff make me in doubt…. :/
I just decided to rewrite my app in Objective-c, but it’s lot of work :/
Yeah… After going over 3.3.1 a few times and looking up some Articles that Steve Jobs endorsed (more or less) I think its pretty straight forward. They mean to kill ALL platforms that translate into Objective-C. This makes me both angry and sad. It was not so long ago Apple survived ONLY by Adobe products and if they had not developed for MAC in its pre and just post OSX days. The company would of died. Nice to see how they repay the support in the end. This is not limited. to Titanium. This is a big black eye to Unity 3D as well. Currently they are safe in terms of game designs for the MAC. But Kills there iPhone and iPad development.
Accelerator, get some direct, straight answers, IN WRITING, from apple quick or forget about the apple platform entirely. And focus on all others so you can survive. Like i said sad. But if thats the ego game they want to play then there is nothing much that can be done except for Class Action Lawsuit.
@SuperMonkey, Can you give a link to Steve Jobs’ citation of that story?
Apple – Big Bully :-(
Here’s an article:
http://erickerr.com/iphone-agreement-thirdparty
I truly look forward to see Titanium face the Section331 storm. From my experience, I would like to have (and buy) a Titanium app dedicated to the iPhone platform. Crossplatform is a dream, but it doesn’t work out of the box. Considering the same app on the iPhone vs Android I can see that porting the app to Andoid requires pretty much code rewriting. In France where I live nobody cares about Android Apps that are not mainstream for the moment. What we need is a main Appcellerator framework/suite with dedicated software for each platform to complie precise requirements from mobile manufacturers. What Apple did today could happen again with someone else.
*BAM* Your dead.
I’m so sorry.
@Brad, I agree.
Android and other mobile platforms are catching the iPhone pretty quickly and I would love to use Titanium to develop for these platforms if full support was given for them.
I think Steve Jobs has given us a clear answer to what the TOS mean and it’s now time for you guys to forget about Apple and concentrate on Android and the many other rising platforms.
Open source and freedom of choice will win in the end.
Here’s my 2 cents on the issue – as a comment to a recent TechCrunch post:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/12/gruber-apple-was-right-adobe-get-over-it-video/#comment-1025641
For Phonegap, these guys are holding on the the fact that Apple presented the Phonegap Webkit to Objective-C api bridging method at WWDC 2009 as ‘the way to do such communications’ And of course the fact it had some apps accepted at the Appstore. However i find this a pretty weak basis to claim Phonegap is OK without explicit approval. The Apple developer relations guys that did these presentations, are hardly something you can hide behind when the policy changes higher up. So whenever you see ‘Phonegap is OK’ its just based on this, nothing more. Seems to have permeated the media though.
Is there any *official* update/statement from GestApple?
Belief is a good thing, but written documents are better when basing a business on a platform..
Since TechCrunch’s permalinks (re: my post above) to comments don’t work when they paginate them, I’ll paste my whole comment here:
Just some facts about Appcelerator’s Titanium tools and their app creation process, which we hope will see them on the safe side of Section 3.3.1:
“As a pre-requisite to using Titanium, developers must install the Apple iPhone SDK and Apple XCode development toolchain.
They must install Titanium on a Macintosh and they must have a valid Apple Developer membership before they are even able to create a Titanium-based iPhone/iPad application.
Titanium produces a valid XCode project (*.xcodeproj) at application creation, generates Objective-C (and sometimes C/C++) and executes the xcodebuild to compile the XCode project into a native application using Apple’s published APIs.”
The tools launch Apple’s iPhone simulator to test applications, create the correct Apple binary for integration to iTunes when testing the signed application on a device and uses all the certified Apple tools for signing to create the final distribution.
“The developer must obtain their own Apple signing certificate for creating applications with Titanium and Xcode and the developer uses their own Apple iTunes Connect membership and login to upload the package to Apple for submission. ”
via their developer blog : http://bit.ly/cVfY0w
Adobe’s CS5 however, would allow developers to build iPhone app on Windows, which I’m sure is an absolute no-no. The process appears to be quite a kludge (of the AIR publishing process), from what can be seen in this tutorial by Lee Brimelow (who was extremely vocal about his disdain for Apple in a recent blog post: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 )
See his tutorial on Adobe’s app creation process here : http://gotoandlearn.com/play?id=116
One thing to note after watching this tutorial is the resulting iPhone app filesize of the (less than 20 lines of AS3 code) Flash app: 3.2Mb !
That’s pretty big for what it is! And this makes me wonder what else Adobe are bundling with the app. Possibly its ‘LLVM’ (a low-level virtual machine – which is known as an ‘Ahead Of Time’ compiler – see here from Adobe: http://bit.ly/MQtRZ – as opposed to a ‘Just In Time’ compiler, which is effectively what the desktop Flash player is)
I have been using Titanium to create a far more complex app than this example for the iPhone, which is capable of doing some things that none of the other potential offenders’ platforms are possible of doing (taking and manipulating photos, recording videos, recording audio, etc.etc) which I write in JavaScript, which then gets compiled using the process stated above to create a proper, signed iPhone app for submission to the AppStore.
The resulting file size of the app? Only 1.6Mb. Amazing.
Another key issue here is that Titanium is completely open source, compared to Adobe’s very much closed platform.
ps: I’m not a Flash hater at all. I’ve built many useful things on their platform for many years – when it makes sense to. And I agree that desktop performance of it can be awful – what with web pages and blogs literally riddled with them, often causing any browser to crash.
Adobe should concentrate on making their tools support the output of HTML5 (please, please without the ‘code bloat’ which Dreamweaver exports HTML!!)
I have had no experience of Monotouch or Phonegap, though from what I can gather, Phonegap (which is extremely simple, yet limited to what it can actually do beyond what a browser/webapp can do – but with some hooks into a few of the hardware APIs) might also be on the safe side too, since they ironed out issues with Apple a while ago.
I fully support Appcelerator and their Titanium tool for iPhone app development. I have found it to be the most exciting and enabling project I have ever seen in many years (15) of mobile and web development.
Thanks Kosso for this positive and optimistic attitude. I hope your well argumented demonstration is right and that we’ll be able to still develop mobile apps with Titanium for iPhone. I spent 4 month on a project using Titanium and I recon that I don’t know what to say to my client. Should I keep on working this way or try to learn Objective C that sound very difficult to me. Titanium development is fast, fun and intuitive, well adapted for light applications. I would be really disapointed if was forced to give up.
@Kosso
I am totally agree with you. Titanium is the most exciting project i ever seen since many years, i started recently to make some apps on desktop with it, wonderful.
@michel Perrin
I am in the same situation. Want to learn Objective C, but the market right now need a fast development cycle, that i can’t do with native Obj-c for now : i know all i can do in Obj-c will never be optimised like titanium apps until i know well Obj-c.
So for other platform : don’t care about Android : the only big market that make the “buzz” is AppStore.
Even if Apple make a lot of damage with ToS, i am sure the majority of developpers will follow their devs in this way, even if they are not agree with terms.
The fact is : the market of Mobile is clearly on the side of Iphone, this is not only a fashion device or tendance, but a really “good product” !!! Every body know this i think.
The difference between Iphone OS and other Mobile OS is like the difference between Mac OS and Windows. (So don’t feed the Troll, my apologize ^^”" )
In anycase, i’m waiting for a good (or bad…. :/ ) news from Titanium Staff, i hope it will be allright….
[...] Appcelerator updated statement Follow me on twitter Twitter Delicious Dzone Reddit Stumble Upon [...]
update re PhoneGap:
http://blogs.nitobi.com/jesse/2009/11/20/phonegapp-store-approval/#tb
(note Update from yesterday)
This would seem to bode well for Ti?
@karlo thanks for that update!
Still crossing fingers and coding strong for Titanium! ;)
4 days ago I contacted Apple (I’m a paying developer).
Here’s what I wrote to them:
“I want to know if Titanium appcelerator platform is in accord with Apple iPhone 4.0 Terms of Service.
I have spend a lot of time and effort on learning and developing on the Titanium platform and I hope to get a clear and straight answer.
(Please note that I am using a Mac and the Titanium Appcelerator platform produces an XCode project file).”
here’s what they wrote back to me:
“Thank you for contacting Apple Developer Support regarding the iPhone Developer Program.
For information regarding your enquiry, please refer to the Program License Agreement.
You can view a copy of our program agreements by logging in to the Member Center:
thank you for your clear, honest and supporting answer dear Apple.
So what does this mean for those of us who have spent hours, days, months, learning titanium and developing our apps? Worst case scenario…
Is it possible to get titanium to spit out the xcode source which you can then transfer to use with approved development tools?
Also, does this mean we can develop apps using pre 4.0 sdk’s and not have them rejected?
Looks like PhoneGap received some good news, hopefully Titanium will be treated similarly:
http://blogs.nitobi.com/jesse/2009/11/20/phonegapp-store-approval/
Of course pre-1.0 would have had a better chance, even though performance is worse there.
I developed a small app in 3 days last week while learning Titanium. Then this news came. I started learning Objective C the same day and still doing it. I then signed up for apple dev program where I had to agree to new agreement.
I still went ahead and submitted my app that was developed in Titanium. And it got approved in 3 days. Waiting for it to appear in app store now. :)
I started to like xcode, interface builder, IBOutlet and @synthesize and what not but still think Titanium is a great tool to help speed up in development.
I hope this light at the end of the tunnel stays on :)
Thanks for sharing that Gente, definitely good news for PhoneGap
So what is the process to determine whether Titanium apps will be accepted with Apple SDK 4? Do we have to wait til it’s released or are you folks asking for clarification from Apple now?
[...] Just where will the line be drawn? Common sense would say that development tools that generated Objective-C, but used XCode to compile the source would be safe. Then again, common sense would say that ostracizing a large portion of your developer pool would be bad business. Titanium produces a valid XCode project at application creation, generates Objective-C (and sometimes C/C++) and executes the xcodebuild to compile your XCode project into a native application using Apple’s published APIs. We launch the Apple’s iPhone simulator to test your application, create the correct Apple binary for integration to iTunes when testing your signed application on device and use all the certified Apple tools for signing to create the final distribution. – Jeff Haynie, Update on Apple SDK and Tos [...]
dBeb, there is no process. Apple will not provide you with the informations you need, no matter how friend you ask or how long you beg. The only way to find out is to create a project with the platform you are unsure about and submit it. After a few weeks you’ll hear from Apple if they accept it or not. That’s not 100% safe since Apple didn’t follow their own rules in many cases but that’s as near as you can get.
Apple- the company where developers are treated worse then trash.
Hi, I develop a small application (Psicosis) with titanium and it got approved in 3 days.
The sdk target of app is 3.1.
Titanium is OK, pass the new ToS
Waiting for it to appear in app store now.
@Quest4Denali and @Quest4Denali twitted that their titanium approved by apple